Thanks very much Bruce for the information on L. lapicida. I photographed an attractive individual lichen on the same large Si rocks, (in talus, 3,600’, near Snoqualmie Pass), which turned out to be a form of S. testudinea I hadn’t previously (probably now will see it everywhere) knowingly encountered (photos 1 and 2). Also present (photo 3) was the form with extensive black hypothallus (some of which from Beckler Peak (photo 4) I had mistakenly sent for your brown Lecidea study). The form which had for me previously seemed typical was abundant on the same rocks (photo 5), some of which had odd looking apothecia (photo 6). Another form (if that is the right word for all these) came to mind (photo 7). I find the degree of variation interesting. Finally, another consideration was the apparent allelopathy (photos 8 and 9) which only occurred around some individuals.